Comments on: It All Depends On What The Definition Of Pledge Is http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/ Just When You Thought it was Safe to Take Politics Seriously Again Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:56:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Frank http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63459 Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:46:32 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63459 In my previous post I wrote that the "seating" of the delegates wouldn't necessarily mean that their votes counted towards any candidate. I was wrong on that front as they would indeed count, from what I understand. That said, not only did Clinton not break any pledge but ultimately this is not remotely her decision. The DNC will make the decision on whether or not to count any of those delegates towards the final vote total. And while she may support their inclusion (doing so is just good politics in those states considering she's trying to curry support heading into any general election), it is in no way breaking any sort of promise made. In my previous post I wrote that the “seating” of the delegates wouldn’t necessarily mean that their votes counted towards any candidate. I was wrong on that front as they would indeed count, from what I understand. That said, not only did Clinton not break any pledge but ultimately this is not remotely her decision. The DNC will make the decision on whether or not to count any of those delegates towards the final vote total. And while she may support their inclusion (doing so is just good politics in those states considering she’s trying to curry support heading into any general election), it is in no way breaking any sort of promise made.

]]> by: Frank http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63308 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:50:18 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63308 You guys (including Mortman) are idiots. Hillary (and Obama and Edwards) pledged not to "campaign" in Michigan and Florida and they all stuck to that pledge (with Hillary going so far as to not fly into FL until the polls closed so as not to violate that pledge). As far as I know, they never pledged not to "participate" - whatever that means - in those primaries (Would love the Union-Leader to let us know the source of that "pledge or participate" quote in that smear). And regardless, Obama and Edwards also had their names on the ballot in Florida so even if they did pledge not to "participate" then they too broke that pledge. As for the "seating" of the delegates, pretty sure that means exactly how it reads. Literally, the delegate's seats were taken away, as in their delegation couldn't even participate in the convention. Nobody is trying to get the delegates counted towards any candidate. The only liar here is the Union-Leader and Mortman for reprinting a false story. You guys (including Mortman) are idiots. Hillary (and Obama and Edwards) pledged not to “campaign” in Michigan and Florida and they all stuck to that pledge (with Hillary going so far as to not fly into FL until the polls closed so as not to violate that pledge). As far as I know, they never pledged not to “participate” - whatever that means - in those primaries (Would love the Union-Leader to let us know the source of that “pledge or participate” quote in that smear). And regardless, Obama and Edwards also had their names on the ballot in Florida so even if they did pledge not to “participate” then they too broke that pledge.

As for the “seating” of the delegates, pretty sure that means exactly how it reads. Literally, the delegate’s seats were taken away, as in their delegation couldn’t even participate in the convention. Nobody is trying to get the delegates counted towards any candidate.

The only liar here is the Union-Leader and Mortman for reprinting a false story.

]]> by: ZZMike http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63141 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:45:20 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63141 We notice that Hillary will be taking Governor Granholm (who endorsed Hillary, despite Hillary's not setting foot in Michigan) with her, in the unlikely even that she and Bill become the first Co-Presidents of the US. Joe I: We should be more tolerant of people like Teshuus. They have no idea who Hillary is (like many other people).. She defines herself by who she puts on her team. People like Granholm, the Democratic tax-and-spend, anti-business left-liberal governor; people like Ron Dellums, Oakland mayor and the first openly socialist Congressman elected since WW II; people like Sandy ("deep pockets") Berger, who stole and destroyed National Archive documents that whould have embarrassed Bill Clinton; disgraced former judge Alcee Hastings; and by her praise for Al Sharpton's National Action Network, about which she said, "“I have enjoyed a long and positive relationship with Reverend Al Sharpton and National Action Network, and I don’t ever remember saying “no” to them and I intend to remain their partner in civil rights as I clean the dirt from under the carpet in the oval office when I am elected President”. We notice that Hillary will be taking Governor Granholm (who endorsed Hillary, despite Hillary’s not setting foot in Michigan) with her, in the unlikely even that she and Bill become the first Co-Presidents of the US.

Joe I: We should be more tolerant of people like Teshuus. They have no idea who Hillary is (like many other people).. She defines herself by who she puts on her team. People like Granholm, the Democratic tax-and-spend, anti-business left-liberal governor; people like Ron Dellums, Oakland mayor and the first openly socialist Congressman elected since WW II; people like Sandy (”deep pockets”) Berger, who stole and destroyed National Archive documents that whould have embarrassed Bill Clinton; disgraced former judge Alcee Hastings; and by her praise for Al Sharpton’s National Action Network, about which she said, ““I have enjoyed a long and positive relationship with Reverend Al Sharpton and National Action Network, and I don’t ever remember saying “no” to them and I intend to remain their partner in civil rights as I clean the dirt from under the carpet in the oval office when I am elected President”.

]]> by: Osama Bin Laden http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63133 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:26:20 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63133 Leave Her Thighness -- Hillary Rotten Clintoon -- alone RIGHT NOW !!! Leave Her Thighness — Hillary Rotten Clintoon — alone RIGHT NOW !!!

]]> by: Mark Buehner http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63127 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:52:01 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63127 The point is if the deligate count is close enough that the Florida and Michigan deligates become relevant in a brokered convention, Hillary will pull out every procedural trick in the book, and eventually lawsuits, to get them counted. Tthe candidates all agreed not to campaign in those states, and than Hillary went anyway knowing full well she could try to get the count slipped in later if necessary. This allowed her to pick up two states for free- all it cost her was any shred of honesty we might have hoped she had. So get ready, because the old 'every vote must be counted' meme is coming back with a vengence. And for all the apologists out there... you scare me. Is there anything HRC could do that would cause you to object at this point? How can you possibly excuse this behavior outside of avoiding thinking about it, as the above posts seem adept at doing. The point is if the deligate count is close enough that the Florida and Michigan deligates become relevant in a brokered convention, Hillary will pull out every procedural trick in the book, and eventually lawsuits, to get them counted. Tthe candidates all agreed not to campaign in those states, and than Hillary went anyway knowing full well she could try to get the count slipped in later if necessary. This allowed her to pick up two states for free- all it cost her was any shred of honesty we might have hoped she had.

So get ready, because the old ‘every vote must be counted’ meme is coming back with a vengence. And for all the apologists out there… you scare me. Is there anything HRC could do that would cause you to object at this point? How can you possibly excuse this behavior outside of avoiding thinking about it, as the above posts seem adept at doing.

]]> by: Bandit http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63125 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:30:10 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63125 Sorry but the news that HRC lied is like news that the sun rose in the East today. Sorry but the news that HRC lied is like news that the sun rose in the East today.

]]> by: TallDave http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63123 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:21:52 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63123 It may not matter. If Edwards is really dropping out, Obama is in a pretty good position to win. It may not matter. If Edwards is really dropping out, Obama is in a pretty good position to win.

]]> by: Joe I http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63115 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:30:01 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63115 Teshuus, misspelling the word "enough" twice in three words may actually lead people to question your level of intelligence. Going on a caps-lock laced tangent about, well, I'm not really sure what you were getting at since at no time did you address the editorial being discussed, will certainly lead to people concluding that perhaps you are not the voice of intelligent discourse. The bottom line is that HRC unsurprisingly broke her pledge and this editorial calls her out on it. The editorial board's interest in keeping the New Hampshire primary before all others except Iowa's caucuses is a certainly valid criticism however, it does not change the facts about the incongruity between Hillary's pledges/words and her actions. Teshuus, misspelling the word “enough” twice in three words may actually lead people to question your level of intelligence. Going on a caps-lock laced tangent about, well, I’m not really sure what you were getting at since at no time did you address the editorial being discussed, will certainly lead to people concluding that perhaps you are not the voice of intelligent discourse.
The bottom line is that HRC unsurprisingly broke her pledge and this editorial calls her out on it. The editorial board’s interest in keeping the New Hampshire primary before all others except Iowa’s caucuses is a certainly valid criticism however, it does not change the facts about the incongruity between Hillary’s pledges/words and her actions.

]]> by: Daniel in Brookline http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63114 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:27:26 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63114 Okay, a little digging produced some <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/us/politics/02dems.html?ex=1346385600&#38;en=e280c05ad36488d3&#38;ei=5090&#38;partner=rssuserland&#38;emc=rss" rel="nofollow">coroborration</a> of this. But does anybody actually have a photograph of the document she signed? Now THAT I'd like to see. (The abovementioned NYT piece is ambiguous -- it refers to a "written document" that "the candidates signed", but elsewhere it says that Obama and Edwards "agreed to sign a loyalty pledge", and that Clinton "followed suit". So did she sign it, or didn't she? If she did, I'd expect the Obama campaign to get a copy and splatter it across the headlines. (Or perhaps the Obama campaign would then discover just how powerful the Clinton's friends are.) respectfully, Daniel in Brookline Okay, a little digging produced some coroborration of this. But does anybody actually have a photograph of the document she signed? Now THAT I’d like to see.

(The abovementioned NYT piece is ambiguous — it refers to a “written document” that “the candidates signed”, but elsewhere it says that Obama and Edwards “agreed to sign a loyalty pledge”, and that Clinton “followed suit”. So did she sign it, or didn’t she?

If she did, I’d expect the Obama campaign to get a copy and splatter it across the headlines. (Or perhaps the Obama campaign would then discover just how powerful the Clinton’s friends are.)

respectfully,
Daniel in Brookline

]]> by: jagcap http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63098 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:21:41 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63098 Lemme see... keeping your word/oath/written promise/binding contract = "blandly submitting to an out-of-date and out-of-touch system." I think this is a fair characterization of Billary's worldview and is obviously embraced by their supporters... I'm not sure I need any more evidence that the Apocalypse is upon us... Lemme see… keeping your word/oath/written promise/binding contract = “blandly submitting to an out-of-date and out-of-touch system.”
I think this is a fair characterization of Billary’s worldview and is obviously embraced by their supporters… I’m not sure I need any more evidence that the Apocalypse is upon us…

]]> by: Doug http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63096 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:07:03 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63096 I think you quite a fan of HRC, Tryptic, nice try at subject change. Blame New Hampshire for Clinton lies - Nice try. Stay Classy. I think you quite a fan of HRC, Tryptic, nice try at subject change. Blame New Hampshire for Clinton lies - Nice try. Stay Classy.

]]> by: Tom Maguire http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63092 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:25:31 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63092 <i>So much for Hillary finding her voice in New Hampshire.</i> On the contrary - she found her (lying) voice all right. I am rooting hard for Obama because I really, really want to see Hillary cry again. And maybe Bill, too. So much for Hillary finding her voice in New Hampshire.

On the contrary - she found her (lying) voice all right.

I am rooting hard for Obama because I really, really want to see Hillary cry again. And maybe Bill, too.

]]> by: Tryptic http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63090 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:05:26 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63090 While I am not much of HRC fan, the editorialist's venom appears to be based more in protecting New Hampshire's (undeserved ... archaic ... inexplicable) preeminence as the first primary state - and not out of any great love of democracy or the Democratic (Party) process. Compared to both Florida and Michigan, New Hampshire is neither representative nor particularly interesting. But it is nice to know that good old fashioned yankee protectionism is alive and well. If it's good for N.H., it must be good for all of us? Right? Who cares who is disenfranchised ... or if the winner of N.H. is the winner of FL and MI? After all ... it is only about who goes *first* ... right Manchester? Frankly, if she's willing to stick a thumb in Dr. Dean's eye, it says more for HRC than blandly submitting to an out-of-date and out-of-touch system. While I am not much of HRC fan, the editorialist’s venom appears to be based more in protecting New Hampshire’s (undeserved … archaic … inexplicable) preeminence as the first primary state - and not out of any great love of democracy or the Democratic (Party) process. Compared to both Florida and Michigan, New Hampshire is neither representative nor particularly interesting. But it is nice to know that good old fashioned yankee protectionism is alive and well. If it’s good for N.H., it must be good for all of us? Right? Who cares who is disenfranchised … or if the winner of N.H. is the winner of FL and MI? After all … it is only about who goes *first* … right Manchester?

Frankly, if she’s willing to stick a thumb in Dr. Dean’s eye, it says more for HRC than blandly submitting to an out-of-date and out-of-touch system.

]]> by: Teshuus http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63069 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:02:56 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63069 Shamelessly, Obama is claiming that he is able to have a record turn out to vote for him… whom is he kidding… ENOGH IS ENOGH!!! I am tired how is media is trying to portray him as well… are we(Americans) stupid and I mean literally STUPID??? I can only say this… those people who came out to vote also voted for Hillary and Edward—though Edward is getting the smallest share… I think… we should teach Obama, Edward, Opra, and THE MEDIA a lesson… as the NH people did in their primaries. I got news for you America… this is not a game anymore… you want to be heard then get your bottom out of that couch and vote!!!!!… they want to play? We have no fear… we will challenge them in the Supper Tuesday… VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE…. IS NOT A GAME ANYMORE… EVERY ONE HAS A CHANCE TO SMACK THE MEDIA ON THE MOUTH FOR NOT TELLING THE TRUTH…..HILLARY 08!!!!! No matter how the men are trying to gang up on Hillary, it is not going to work… we are going to work hard and win… wake up America… here is your candidate and soon to be president Hillary Rodham Clinton. Vote vote vote vote …. Hillary 08. Shamelessly, Obama is claiming that he is able to have a record turn out to vote for him… whom is he kidding… ENOGH IS ENOGH!!! I am tired how is media is trying to portray him as well… are we(Americans) stupid and I mean literally STUPID??? I can only say this… those people who came out to vote also voted for Hillary and Edward—though Edward is getting the smallest share… I think… we should teach Obama, Edward, Opra, and THE MEDIA a lesson… as the NH people did in their primaries.
I got news for you America… this is not a game anymore… you want to be heard then get your bottom out of that couch and vote!!!!!… they want to play? We have no fear… we will challenge them in the Supper Tuesday… VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE…. IS NOT A GAME ANYMORE… EVERY ONE HAS A CHANCE TO SMACK THE MEDIA ON THE MOUTH FOR NOT TELLING THE TRUTH…..HILLARY 08!!!!!
No matter how the men are trying to gang up on Hillary, it is not going to work… we are going to work hard and win… wake up America… here is your candidate and soon to be president Hillary Rodham Clinton. Vote vote vote vote …. Hillary 08.

]]> by: Dave http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63039 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:41:02 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63039 Hillary? Lie? That never happens! Hillary? Lie? That never happens!

]]> by: Letalis Maximus, Esq. http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63037 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:58:16 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63037 Yeah, but if you take the time to read the comments up there in NH, you will see that the herd of useful idiots continues to perform great service for the Clintons. Clinton die hards are really something; they would rather poke out their own eyes than see the truth. Yeah, but if you take the time to read the comments up there in NH, you will see that the herd of useful idiots continues to perform great service for the Clintons. Clinton die hards are really something; they would rather poke out their own eyes than see the truth.

]]> by: Mark Kraft http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63036 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:55:49 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63036 When asked about campaigning in Florida, even though she had agreed not to, Hillary pounded the podium, wagged her finger, and yelled "I DID NOT HAVE CAMPAIGN RELATIONS WITH THAT STATE!" When asked about campaigning in Florida, even though she had agreed not to, Hillary pounded the podium, wagged her finger, and yelled

“I DID NOT HAVE CAMPAIGN RELATIONS WITH THAT STATE!”

]]> by: richard mcenroe http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63023 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:44:38 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63023 Hey! Maybe they can change their state motto to "Live Free or Lie!" Hey! Maybe they can change their state motto to “Live Free or Lie!”

]]> by: George Bigus http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63005 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:20:11 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63005 I'm SHOCKED , SCHOCKED, to think that Hillary Clinton would lie to voters and break a signed pledge. Hey, if Bill can lie under oath and line up the Senate to protect him, and you continue to support him, why would Hillary think she couldn't get away with this? Or maybe, lying under oath is important after all. The 'NEWS' here is that you suckers actually believed her. Most of the world accepts that Hill and Bill will say anything to anybody to get back into the White House. What were YOU thinking? I’m SHOCKED , SCHOCKED, to think that Hillary Clinton would lie to voters and break a signed pledge.
Hey, if Bill can lie under oath and line up the Senate to protect him, and you continue to support him, why would Hillary think she couldn’t get away with this? Or maybe, lying under oath is important after all.
The ‘NEWS’ here is that you suckers actually believed her. Most of the world accepts that Hill and Bill will say anything to anybody to get back into the White House. What were YOU thinking?

]]> by: Assistant Village Idiot http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63004 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:14:24 +0000 http://www.extrememortman.com/2008-campaign/it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-pledge-is/#comment-63004 I could hope that word of this would turn my blue state red again, but the people who have moved here over the last 20 years have been largely from blue states (esp MA, CT, NY). They have no memory, apparently, and are liberals for social rather than intellectual reasons. I could hope that word of this would turn my blue state red again, but the people who have moved here over the last 20 years have been largely from blue states (esp MA, CT, NY). They have no memory, apparently, and are liberals for social rather than intellectual reasons.

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